What DMARC Protects You From, and What It Does Not

(senderledger.com)

138 points | by adulion 13 days ago

13 comments

  • sam_lowry_ 13 days ago
    > Every email carries two "from" addresses

    I made a presentation about exactly the same subject many years ago, but I was not shy of separating the SMTP protocol (RFC 821 and the following ) and the email message (RFC 822 and the following).

    It makes the link between SPF, DKIM and DMARC much clearer.

    Anyway. The article covers just the bare minimum, and in the most obscure way.

    For those interested in the inner workings of contemporary email delivery... I recommend the posts by Alex Shakhov on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexshakhov/ (Yes, there is still meaningful content on LinkedIn, it's just vanishingly rare)

    • philosopherNoob 12 days ago
      Are those posts available without logging in? This sounds like good stuff but I can’t access it.
      • sam_lowry_ 12 days ago
        I think he reposts them on his consulting page https://www.sh.consulting/blog and no, I am not affiliated. Just keeping an eye on the email deliverability topic as a hoppy.
        • ThePowerOfFuet 11 days ago
          Do you mean as a hobby?
          • sam_lowry_ 10 days ago
            Yes, did it for others and for my own business once, but this field is dead in EU. Everyone and their friend gave up on owning the email infra
    • ciupicri 12 days ago
      If only I could read those articles without joining LinkedIn.
    • ddevnyc 12 days ago
      I'm sure I don't speak just for myself when I ask, can you link the presentation?
  • avian 12 days ago
    Vaguely related question: what is the go-to open DMARC check implementation these days? I mean the part that checks _received_ mail against DMARC rules. It used to be opendmarc, but it seems people have been dropping it for a while because of history of breaking changes and general lack of good stewardship [1]. Anyone using pydmarc [2]?

    It's hard to find good info on this since 99% of search hits are people talking about setting up DMARC from the _sender_ side.

    [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1014058#39

    [2] https://pypi.org/project/dmarc/

    • oogali 12 days ago
      I use rspamd.

      This might be a little heavy if you’re solely looking for DMARC validation, but I use the other parts of rspamd as well for inbound email.

      https://rspamd.com/modules/dmarc/

      For a library, I mainly write Go and I use https://github.com/emersion/go-msgauth (formerly known as go-dkim).

      • actionfromafar 12 days ago
        • oogali 12 days ago
          Thanks for the correction. I guess I had a mis-paste that stripped out the leading part of the hostname... weird.
          • dylan604 12 days ago
            This just brought back bad memories of websites manipulating the clipboard when copying text. The ones that append the website attribution with full URL is a crime against humanity.
    • 1over137 12 days ago
      Indeed opendmarc seems practically abandonware.

      rspamd is what I use.

      • brightball 12 days ago
        That is good to know. I thought it was maintained by Valimail?
    • ksajadi 12 days ago
      We use sendops.dev for that and the rest of reputation management on AWS.
  • joladev 12 days ago
    > Here is the part that trips people up.

    It's hard to take something seriously when it's very clearly AI generated. It's just a coin toss on whether the information in the article is correct.

    • johncalvinyoung 12 days ago
      Yeah. I know what DMARC does, I run a mail server, but I thought it might be an interesting blog post nonetheless. It was very very obviously generated text, and not particularly information-dense or insightful. Gave up on reading it halfway through.
  • crossroadsguy 12 days ago
    > Where it falls short

    Really? DMARC falls short there? "DMARC" now must run around beating any naughty sender that tries to send spoofed email with a stick? Because it already proves they're a spoofer (if domain owner was smart/important enough) to anyone who is looking :)

    I had set the rules to reject the mail (if someone tried to spoof my personal domain; some do) and then send me a combined report. After realising I could do nothing with those reports, I just removed that part.

    Anyway, one of the few reasons I still use Thunderbird is its DKIM Verifier add-on.

    SMS and email, in their current design, have outlived their safety relevance by a long shot. At least email has some protections (or a lot), but SMS is just a time bomb that keeps getting used even though it keeps going off.

  • PunchyHamster 12 days ago
    protests you from: having some free time for more important things

    doesn't protect you from: anything, users will get phished by domain anyway, and the spammers/scammer send DMARCed email anyway

    • thesuitonym 12 days ago
      I'm not sure why you think DMARC takes a lot of time to manage. It doesn't. Are you trying to read every single RUA report daily?
  • sylware 12 days ago
    I think DMARC is missing email address with IPv[46] literals support. As being self-hosted, without paying the DNS mob, I am still blocked to send email to gmail.com because such email addresses do throw out of whack gogol code.

    Email addresses with IPv[46] literals are intrinsincly stronger than SPF. If in the envelope or any of the 'from' headers (if my memory does not fail me, there are few more headers to scan), the IPv[46] literal does not match the actual and real IP of the SMTP server, the email is dropped, not even going into any spam folder.

    Conspiracy mode: they know and are careful not to support that, in order to create a walled garden of internet messaging for them and their friends.

    • lxgr 12 days ago
      Arguably, missing IP literal domain support is pretty far down the list of things creating today's actual mail delivery walled garden.
    • drdexebtjl 12 days ago
      I think DMARC is missing support for homing pigeon characteristics such as the markings and colors on its crest and plumage. As being self-hosted, without paying the IANA and ISP mob, I am still blocked to send email to gmail.com.
      • sylware 11 days ago
        Regulation on small tech interop is exactly for guys like you.
        • inigyou 11 days ago
          I thought it was a joke, that Gmail should be mandated to support receiving by carrier pigeon.
          • drdexebtjl 11 days ago
            You could even say the joke flew right over their head :)

            —-

            Sent from my pigeon

    • PunchyHamster 12 days ago
      Most people don't own their IP range so it's moot point to support it.
      • inigyou 11 days ago
        Most people use Gmail, but that isn't an excuse to remove non-gmail support from email.
        • sylware 10 days ago
          There are doing exactly that... slowly and surely... pure evil.
    • inigyou 12 days ago
      Wasn't this removed from the email standards?
    • kube-system 12 days ago
      It is not a conspiracy theory that it is hard to maintain reliable delivery with self-hosting email. It is primarily because email filters are in part based on trust relationships, and huge amounts of spam come (or at least, did) from relatively unknown originating servers.
      • sylware 11 days ago
        Spam does not work with email addresses using IP literals.
        • kube-system 11 days ago
          Because, as I just said, it's unlikely to be deliverable.
          • sylware 10 days ago
            Spam relies on trust the user gives to the domain name in the email address of the from header, you dumb dumb.
  • sourcecodeplz 12 days ago
    dmarc
  • ShieldScopeApp 12 days ago
    [flagged]
  • effnorwood 12 days ago
    [dead]
  • cadamsdotcom 13 days ago
    [flagged]
    • dspillett 12 days ago
      > it's rude to ship your first draft

      To whom this should concern:

      Oh, do pop off.

      Bothering to write/edit anything yourself should be given bonus points these days, not pulled apart for minor grammar/structural/style issues. You'll be telling me no to flaming split initiatives next.

    • iamacyborg 12 days ago
      You’re being polite, this stinks of Claude.
  • thesuitonym 12 days ago
    Bad article, probably a bad product.
    • ElijahLynn 12 days ago
      Can you elaborate more on why it's a bad article?

      Is someone who doesn't know much about it? It seem to make a lot of sense to me and was really easy to understand and digest.. is there something inaccurate about it though?